1999-2010

Sunday, February 05, 2006

Where in the world Is Patrick McDermott?

Olivia Newton John has a new boyfriend. Caroline Graham reports that the songbird is falling hopelessly in love with a multimillionaire movie investor named Michael Klein. Graham reports that “the pair spent last week together at Donald Trump's Florida estate, where Newton-John was due to perform at a private charity yesterday.” We hope she had a good view of the ocean, because an ocean is where her alleged longtime lover Patrick McDermott went missing eight months ago while Livvie skipped nary a beat.

It appears that Olivia Newton-John’s team has successfully put this scandal behind her.

But what happened to Patrick McDermott? And why doesn’t anyone care?

Patrick McDermott was a cameraman and supposedly Newton-John’s lover of nine years when he disappeared from a fishing charter boat off San Pedro, California, on June 30. He was missing more than seven weeks before an eagle-eyed reporter made the connection, and let police and the Coast Guard know the missing man was the boyfriend of an international superstar. In those seven weeks, Olivia Newton-John neither reported McDermott missing nor made any public appeal to find him, in case he was in a hospital or wandering with amnesia. Newton-John had been back and forth between Malibu and Australia, where she’d made public appearances and went about business preparing an album release and tour.

On that Sunday morning in August when the story broke, the Coast Guard told us they didn’t know if Patrick McDermott was dead or alive--and that they suspected he’d taken a runner-- faked his death because of money troubles! First question: How could Olivia Newton-John’s live-in lover have money troubles?

It was McDermott’s ex-wife, and mother of his 13-year-old son, who reported McDermott missing, a week after his disappearance. He’d been divorced from Yvette Nipar for a dozen years, yet she was still part of his life, and had recently taken him to court for child support. Investigative reporter Doug Bruckner found out in short order that McDermott had filed for bankruptcy, and lived not in Newton-John’s Malibu pleasuredome, but in a small house in Van Nuys, the low-rent porn capital in the Valley. He also found Nipar, who wouldn’t talk (and still hasn’t).

As soon as we got on the story, Newton-John released a statement urging help in finding her “treasured friend” and went into mournful “seclusion.” But within days, she brought in Hollywood security expert Gavin de Becker, and the spin campaign began. Friends and a nephew calling himself “Emerson Newton-John” (actually Jeff Conaway’s kid) told stories that painted Newton-John as leader of the search effort, explained away her seven weeks of public bliss, and revealed the slow fade of the relationship because of McDermott’s drinking.

For Newton-John, the mourning period was about as swift as Pat O’Brien’s rehabilitation from sex and drug addiction. Despite earlier indications, she carried on with her album promotion, as a deal was made for a softball, no-hard-questions interview segment on Good Morning America and with other news outlets. She returned to the stage, carried on with her tour, and in November even made tabloid headlines with an alleged $9,000 lunch at a New York City eatery with her longtime friend, the “asexual” Brit singer Cliff Richard.

Patrick McDermott quickly became old news, another tragic episode in the brave Livvie saga.

So what gives? What happened to Patrick McDermott? At last word, police and Coast Guard have no clues and are leaning toward suicide, allowing them to close the book on this latest chapter of Hollywood Babylon.

So McDermott committed suicide, ran away because of his debts, or simply slipped off the boat.

Why did Olivia Newton-John act as she did? Tabloid Baby theory: Either Olivia Newton-John didn’t know he was missing—or she helped him abscond to a place like Australia’s Great Barrier Reef. Because Patrick McDermott was a beard. An employee. A big, strong, handsome man whose job it was to be at her side at premieres, in articles, and Hollywood myth, for a number of reasons that go beyond what she does in her private life. Patrick McDermott played his part, and then drove home to Van Nuys.

Olivia Newton-John has been rumoured to be a lesbian, even before she camped it up with Travolta in Grease. She’s blamed the rumours on a Tonight Show appearance back in the 1970s, when her innocent comment about having “girlfriends” caused Johnny to arch an eyebrow.

But her real troubles started in 1980, when a stalker named Ralph Nau came into her life. Convinced she loved him, Ralph started following the star. Four years later, he tried to join her onstage in Los Angeles and followed to Australia. Then he beat his autistic brother to death. He remains in a mental institution.

She first hired hired Gavin de Becker and his security team in 1983, when another stalker, Michael Perry, was found near her home. De Becker’s people convinced Perry to get out of town and out of state. Perry went home to Louisiana, slaughtered five members of his own family and left a note suggesting Newton-John might be next. De Becker whisked her into hiding; Perry was caught, and remains on Death Row.

Late in 1984, she married a young actor named Matt Lattanzi. Latanzi, eleven years her junior, had been discovered by director George Cukor for the movie Rich & Famous. They had a daughter and lived a mostly private life, until 1995, when after a bout with breast cancer and bankruptcy, Newton-John and Lattanzi divorced. Soon, Patrick McDermott became the man at her side. A tough guy you wouldn’t want to mess with.

Patrick McDermott played his role for the Hollywood machine. He provided perfect cover for Olivia-Newton John, from People magazine to the Enquirer to Entertainment Tonight. But after he disappeared, and the elements of a textbook Hollywood scandal and cover-up began taking shape in plain sight on three continents, few made the effort to follow up. There are albums to promote, and awards to give out. Now Olivia Newton-John's moved on, with a rich new boyfriend to be seen with in public, and an unpleasant episode is pushed aside.

Remember Patrick McDermott. His story’s not over yet.


Is Patrick McDermott alive? Report sightings here.

407 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Olivia Newton- John just another two faced so called star. Her fame was gone so she needed something big to get her name in the papers. I was a die hard fan but no more, she has proven what kind of person she is. I for one can't support someone who is so cold and heartless.

Anonymous said...

She's old, and she's still a hottie. Forget heartless, that POA can make me forgive a multitude of sins. Even if she is a lesbian. In fact, even better. Much better, really. Who really cares about this deadbeat anyway. He a big faux tan loser with a mullet. She's hotter than brittney spears (with baby). Come to think of it, mcdermott looks kind of like Kevin Federline - coincidence?

Anonymous said...

Van Nuys is not a low-rent porn capital of the San Fernando Valley, oh by the way!! The porn capital is Chatsworth, CA, and Van Nuys homes are all over half a million dollars.

-Van Nuys resident

Anonymous said...

ssez is the user name of the poster who posted at 6:45. He is a member from a website that is organized to be the anti-olivia site. These are the people responsible for organizing a fund and support group for Michael Perry's campaign to be released from prison.
They have all been banned from seeing Olivia in concert and organize saturday night chats on how to bring down the rival cub.
SSez is soley responsible for trying to organize a picket line outside of a ONJ concert in vegas last year. And was promptly arrested for public urination and exposure.

Anonymous said...

hi, poster above me, you left out a very important part of the arrest report. That guy that was arrested, ssez, or whoever, was originally booked as a woman. Apparently he is a somewhat overweight , effeminate man in makeup. When they made him change into a regulation jail jumpsuit. They saw what they thought was a low hanging clitoris, when in fact it was his tiny male genitalia

Anonymous said...

The person who said ssez -or whatever the name - from a website organized anti-Olivia crap - would you care to name the website and prove your point or are you making this up?

And who of you really know what happened in this story (who is guilty of what...)?


Some of you talk a little too quickly. I hope they don't hire folk like you on jurys..

Anonymous said...

Sounds to me a little slander here, and a lawsuit by poster ssez!
Anyone else care to post ignorant and humiliating comments and back them up in court? We all need the money!
Show me your true colors?

Anonymous said...

oh right, like this would go to court. It is on a website aimed at flaming people. Go ahead, take it to court, dummy, you big dummy, haha

Anonymous said...

Well, where should I begin? Shouldn't the REAL fans be here defending Olivia instead of attacking people who have NEVER even posted here?

Any fan who believes that Olivia would willing do something like this is an absolute fool. This wouldn't help her career it would END it. Olivia is not 20 years old anymore. If she were to go to jail over this she would be there the rest of her life. Let's get real here. Until I see absolute proof Olivia had anything to do with this, I will give her the benefit of the doubt. She may not be perfect but I think she deserves better than the treatment she is getting here.

As far as our friend Ssez. Interesting how someone who posts using Anonymous can be ASSUMED to be actually known by name by another person posting as Anonymous. If you are basing your judgment on what he posted, ANY ONE of you could be that person you accuse him of being because none of you had anything good to say about her.

I think it is absolutely disgusting to turn a blog with a lot up unsubstantiated crap in it about Olivia, into a personal attack against another person or fan club.

But since you want to bring it up, let's do that. First of all let's discuss where you got your information from.

You accused him of setting up some kind of picket line in front of one of her Las Vegas concerts last year. Well, any fan with half of brain would know that Olivia DIDN'T perform in Las Vegas last year. She has not performed in L.V. since 2004. I attended that concert and there were no picketers at the Las Vegas Hilton. I also know he was not there for that concert which was her only one there that year.

You said he was from some group where all the members where banned from seeing her. How is that even physically possible? I am sure these people don't go to concerts wearing badges around their necks identifying who they are. Please.

These was also reference to his physical stature, being overweight, and wearing make up. He is 5' 4" about 120 lbs. is of Filipino decent and walks with a limp due to a birth defect. I know this because I know him personally. I don't think he would even be capable of picketing.

Now let's talk about the website you slandered. You claim it to be an anti-Olivia site. Humm at the top of the first page of the site is the dedication of a star named after Olivia given to her as a gift in 2000. On EVERY page of that site is a link to CHEC, ONJCC AND her OFFICIAL website. No other site does that. It has one of the LARGEST Olivia photo galleries on the internet. It lists her tour dates with links to the venues for fans easy access. It lists all her TV appreances for the month. It has screen savers, wallpapers and a calendar available for download. It has one of the largest online stores with items you won't find anywhere else. It has a complete biography, discography, and filmography of her career. Yes, it does have a messageboard where fans are free to discuss whatever aspect of Olivia they wish to, sometimes covering the same issues discussed in this blog which none of you seemed to object to.

They also offer a fan club. Get this: ALL the money they take in from membership subscriptions is donated to Olivia's CHARITIES. NO other fan club does that, especially the one referred to as the rival fan club. They don't use the money to finance trips to Olivia's concert for their management nor do they use it to pay any other fan club expenses. The website itself is entirely paid for by the webmaster and not out of members donations. The rival fan club does not do that either. The fan club always remembers Olivia with cards for her birthday and Christmas. The stated purpose is to promote and support Olivia. It is NOT to promote itself. The other fan club does nothing but promote itself and rarely if at all promotes Olivia.

About the members being banded from seeing Olivia. Well, gee, several of the Australian members have ALREADY seen her this year in concert. There are members in the U.S. that already have tickets for her concerts in the U.S. So, tell me how is this possible if they are banned from her concerts?

That rumor about them raising funds for Michael Perry's release? I didn't even know who Michael Perry was until I read this stupid posting. Could you possibly supply us with the imaginary cancelled check from the imaginary bank from the imaginary fund drive?

You people are just pathetic. If you are going to lie at least make it believable.

Guess who started the ugly rumors about this fan club? The RIVAL fan club. What a coincidence.

How do I know all these things? I am the president and founder of the Forever & Always, Olivia Newton-John Fan Club, you fools saw fit to attack instead of defending Olivia. Who IS defending Olivia? The guy who runs the fan club you called anti-Olivia. So, exactly which one of us is anti-Olivia?

Anonymous said...

oh brother, why do you think any talk about your website is from OO? Can't someone point out the crazy people on your board without being from OO? You think anything bad said about you is from OO. You are so obsessed with them you probably think they have something to do with Watergate. Get some psychological help dude.
fact is, anyone professionally connected with olivia has banned you from any connection to offical Olivia business, and that sir is a fact. face it. You only posted here on this blog to give your website advertisement. Any time you think something is said, it is against you and by OO members.

Anonymous said...

I am not from OO, I just recognize crazy people when i see it, and that other website is creepy

Anonymous said...

That so called fan club "forever and always "is a joke anyway.They have been around for 5 years and all they have is less than 40 members.Half of those are probably multiple alias's of that loon the founder and president.He goes on and on about a so called letter he has from Olivia's lawyer stateing that Olivia does'nt support any fan club and then whines and cries about all the perks OO gets.Well guess what things change, because olivia does support OO.This idiot is too stupid to understand that after he bashes Olivia and her management, they want nothing to do with his insignificant club.They have another person there named Kate who has bragged that they have followed Olivia's bus for 10 miles.If that's not scarry nothing is.They should change the name of that club to Stalker Central.

Anonymous said...

"president and founder"

OMG *vomit"

anyone can buy a dot com address, does that mean we are all presidents and founders?
That website says all their dues go to charity. HAHAHAHAH have they ever collected dues from anyone? they have like 3 teenage girls as members and that is it...

Anonymous said...

Actually Olivia does not support any of her fan clubs officially. OO does not get any direct new info from her managment, the members pull together to get new info. Olivia sanctioned her own website. And did not include a message board per her request. Because of the message board rivalry from the 2 sites, she did not want that mess on her own official site. Because she was aware that both sites could join the message board and thus the arguing would resume.

Anonymous said...

Yes that founder does use multiple alias to talk back and forth to himself. He has created entire conversations with his different alias names on his board.

Anonymous said...

"stalkers" is an understatement. I requested a member to stop contacting me. That member refused, and even called my mother and harrassed her.

Anonymous said...

There is good and bad on both boards. But someone mentioned the official Olivia site and yes she does have one but it does not get updated as much as it should. They had the same Christmas theme for awhile and the same news. But in general this article from Tabloid baby is about Olivia and her missing boyfriend. Someone had to bring Ssez name into this board's conversation. And to the other person's comments, Ssez can sue this website and its owner for slander. Someone needs to know the law better.
But back to Olivia, Yes, I agree with the founder of Forever, if Patrick is found and if Olivia has helped him escape or provided money for him to run away, she is in a lot of trouble. And for her sake and her daughter's I hope not. This would end her career and maybe even her daughter's before it begins.

Anonymous said...

There used to be a greying tower alone on the sea.
You became the light on the dark side of me.
Love remained a drug that's the high and not the pill.
But did you know,
That when it snows,
My eyes become large and
The light that you shine can be seen.
Baby,
I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey.
Ooh,
The more I get of you,
Stranger it feels, yeah.
And now that your rose is in bloom.
A light hits the gloom on the grave.
There is so much a man can tell you,
So much he can say.
You remain,
My power, my pleasure, my pain, baby
To me you're like a growing addiction that I can't deny.
Won't you tell me is that healthy, baby?
But did you know,
That when it snows,
My eyes become large and the light that you shine can be seen.
Baby,
I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey.
Ooh, the more I get of you
Stranger it feels, yeah
Now that your rose is in bloom.
A light hits the gloom on the grave,
I've been kissed by a rose on the grave,
I've been kissed by a rose
I've been kissed by a rose on the grave,
...And if I should fall along the way
I've been kissed by a rose
...been kissed by a rose on the grave.
There is so much a man can tell you,
So much he can say.
You remain
My power, my pleasure, my pain.
To me you're like a growing addiction that I can't deny, yeah
Won't you tell me is that healthy, baby.
But did you know,
That when it snows,
My eyes become large and the light that you shine can be seen.
Baby,
I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey.
Ooh, the more I get of you
Stranger it feels, yeah
Now that your rose is in bloom,
A light hits the gloom on the grave.
Yes I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey
Ooh, the more I get of you
Stranger it feels, yeah
And now that your rose is in bloom
A light hits the gloom on the grave
Now that your rose is in bloom,
A light hits the gloom on the grave.

Anonymous said...

I will always love you olivia

Anonymous said...

Forever and always = Stalker Central.........Avoid it at all costs like ONJ and her management does!

Anonymous said...

Hey, if I want my children played with by pedophiles or child molesters, I'll just go over to the Only Olivia fan message board and let them log on and have the men email my children disgusting photos and emails. Just like the ones that they sent some other under age fans over the last few years.

Anonymous said...

I DO NOT KNOW HOW SOME OF YOU CAN CALL YOUR SELFS FANS OF OLIVIAS I HAVE BEEN READING POSTS ON THAT SO CALLED FAN WEBSITE AND PRAY THAT OLIVIA NEVER READS THAT CRAP AND NO I AM NOT A MEMBER ON ANY OLIVIA WEBSITE JUST A FAN .

Anonymous said...

Hey the internet is a dangerous place maybe you should monitor your children instead of shouting at windmills and blameing the internet.P.s. please then don't go to Olivia's live show 's where it has been said that the president & founder(lol) of forever & always insignificant fan club pleasure's himself at shows.Just read his post's concerning olivia on his board.You can plainly see he's a threat.Your obviously a troll from f&a. Your always complaining everyone gets censored at OO.Now your saying they don't censor enough.Get in the car with Kate and keep following Olivia's bus like she does .All you stalkers should stay together ,it's easier to keep track of you.

Anonymous said...

It's obvious your not a parent by your actions. Monitering takes on two roles, the one of the parent (who monitors the email and content of the internet) but also one of the media/message boards. I never said everybody was censored at OO, where did you get that from?
Stalkers? Obviously you are one! One that my children need to stay away from as well as some others at OO.

Anonymous said...

the only site you should stay away from is forever and always i only hope olivia never reads the crap and they call them self fans i am not a member of the only olivia fan club but do read there message board and you can tell they are the true olivia fans

Anonymous said...

Ok everyone, this is getting ridicolous. If you call yourselves ON-J fans, why do you wish to attack others?

What does a fanclub have to do with this post? This is about Olivia Newton-John and Patrick. A very nasty post I might add.

If I were all of you, I would not be so quick to judge. If you want to support a fanclub that is so much like highschool and don't care about anyone but themselves that's your problem.

My comment is not directed towards anyone. But this negativity towards other groups and fans needs to stop NOW!!!

I'm done here.

Anonymous said...

If you want the negativity to stop try starting with your stalker president of F&A,He can't go a single day without bashing OO .His little club of 6 members are even getting sick of him.You can say whatever you want but we both know he's the problem.read the post's on his own site and you can see how his fellow members feel about him.I don't know why i'm even calling that place a club.It's been around for over 5 years and i've seen more people in a phone booth.That should tell you all you need to know about that site.

Anonymous said...

Ye ole Prez and Founder of OO beats his meat at Olivia concerts.

Anonymous said...

oops I mean the prez of Forever and Always Olivia beats it.

Anonymous said...

I was at the Vegas concert when he was led out in handcuffs. He had a big battery powered 12 inch black-ribbed-for-his-pleasure vibrator still churning up his rectum as they threw him down on the ground. He couldn't talk cause he was stuttering cause the power was on high.

Anonymous said...

I just wanted to thank you for your sight. I had a few laughs, and also felt with the men who have written to you with a sincere concern about hair loss. I personally can relate to how they feel. I am 21 years old, and have experienced some major hair loss. It started when I was about 16 years old. To tell you the truth, it has been one of the hardest things in my life to come to grips with. I also related with a lot of the advice you gave. For a long time it was very hard for me to see my "shiny" reflection. Sometimes it still does, but little by little I have begun to accept the fact that someday I will be a cue-ball. I have found that much of my insecurity has come from the thought that I am not attractive like this. It's all in the mind. I like myself how I am, my paranoia comes from thinking that others (particularly girls) won't like me for my hair loss. I am coming to realize that this is not true.
I sewed a holster, made from an old wallet, put it around my waist and put my newly purchased electric razor into it. In front of the mirror, I practiced (OK corral style) whipping it out until I felt confident about the challenge before me. (At this point, let me say that I have a very patient wife.) As the time was now here, I pushed the "play" button on the CD player, and the soundtrack of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly came on. My right hand was resting against the holster. At the moment the famous whistle that opens the soundtrack came on, it was only me and the mirror. I reached for the holster, pulled out the razor and the right side of my head was done. I put the razor back into the holster and stepped back a bit. My wife came running and screamed, "stop it Jerry, you'll shoot someone's eye out." I heard nothing. When the whistle came on again, I reached for the holster and bam, the left side was done. I stared into the mirror and the mirror stared back at me. But I wasn't done yet. I opened the drawer and pulled out my brushes, my combs, the Propecia and the Rogaine. I found the videos from various "hair replacement" companies that did nothing but torture me. There was only one thing left to do. I pulled out the blender.... I like the wind again. My wife says that I'm beautiful. Life is good. Life is good. Thank God for Olivia bald head cream by mail. I ordered a 6 month supply.

Anonymous said...

Going up a few posts. I agree about you shouldn't leave your child to play on the internet unsupervised if you are so concerned about what he might see. That is just a bad mother right there. I heard about the photos that were sent, I think the girls who recieved them were like 17 or 18, hardly innocent either.

Anonymous said...

Actually one of the girls was a 15-year old member of the OO board. She received several emails with photos of nude individuals that were sent by private email to her.
She told, her parents, the authorities and the DA office in the poster's towns.

LF said...

There's someone who posted here who said that youngsters trying to follow Olivia's bus for 10 miles were "stalkers", as if that somehow was very serious stalking and that it defined the group.

Pretty simple-minded and it sounds like the person doesn't have much of value to accuse that group.

WELL, I'M PART OF THAT GROUP, have been for over a year, and while i was shocked at times by some of the questions raised by some of it's members, overall, their ultimate aim is to support, not harm Olivia.

Anybody with an intelligence would know that even if some of what's said isn't always nice or flattering, it is not done with the intent to destroy, but with the intent of knowing what is really going on.

If Forever and Always wanted to harm Olivia, it wouldn't promote Olivia, her shows, concerts, products, wouldn't encourage people to express their admiration of Olivia.

In short, some of you get caught up in some of the talk and forget that the site as a whole is supportive of Olivia.

You may have your beefs against the founder, some of them may be more or less justified, i don't know him enough personaly to defend him against every charge.

BUT I DO KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU MISREPRESENT HIS SITE.

BADLY.

I hope people who are curious or interested will check thoroughly enough before coming to a conclusion.

That certainly can't be done by reading what some have posted here.

To get back to the original subject of this post, whatever happened to Patrick, Olivia's degree of involvment in this, etc. are still not known.

We could, as fans, have enough respect to not junp to conclusions and wait till the whole truth is out.

Whether it's OO, Forever and Always or anybody else.

We all would do well to not shout our mouths off until we really know what happened, not just speculate (even if we know some of the story and that it does sound weird).

We owe it to Olivia, and could extend that respect (or at least courtesy) to the persons she cares for.

Anonymous said...

I have looked at Forver and Always. I have to agree the place is based on attacking Olivia. Almost like an anti-site.
They turn around and say horrible things, but try to cover their path by saying "this hasn't been proven, we don't want to think these things, but it is a possibility"
It is scary. The one guy there is really scary, too obsessed and he seems dangerous to me.
I can now understand how Olivia's management will not answer him and hang up on him. Also, every professional Olivia contact has banned Forever and Always from doing business with them. This includes Koala Blue wines, Olivia's publicity group, and even Olivia's management will hang up on them. This is because of threats of lawsuits in the past. My advice is to not associate yourself with them because you will be supporting the people who threaten Olivia's very safety. This will not go unnoticed. You will be banned from any professional contact with Olivia.

Anonymous said...

"My advice is to not associate yourself with them because you will be supporting the people who threaten Olivia's very safety. This will not go unnoticed. You will be banned from any professional contact with Olivia. 6:23 PM"

Who threathen Olivia's very safety? Are you serious?

What are you people..retards??

Or just deliberately spreading lies?

Good lord, i hope no one listens to YOU!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I have also heard Olivia is afraid for her safety when it comes to that cult attending any function. One of the girls there is admittedly in serious therapy and tells people she personally knows Olivia nd if you mess with her, she will tell Olivia. You will know who I mean as soon as you see her incoherent postings on that message board, she is nuttier than the founder.Still it is good they all found eachother cause now they can speak with other loonies.

Anonymous said...

to who post at 9:21
see what i mean, if anyone says anything about forever and always, it is automatically assumed they are from OO, just like you did, so who is the retard here?
everyone knows the truth

Anonymous said...

To anonymous who posted at 11:54, you're the retard...I NEVER SAID IT WAS FROM OO, I JUST SAID IT WAS STUPID (or deliberately false).


I put it in bold letters to make sure you understand..(if that is possible....)

Now get over your fantasy scenarios.. The people at F&A are good people, not particularly insane, and certainly a lot BRIGHTER AND FRIENDLIER than some of you here.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, you big dummy.

Don't post here unless you have something intelligent to say! We can do without your crap!

Anonymous said...

do the chickens have large tallons?

Anonymous said...

Forever and Always was created for, and is intended for the use of taunting and harrassing Olivia and her fans. It is not actually a fan site. The founder was a part of the biggest fan club "only olivia" back in the late 1990's. He did not receive a newsletter one month and went off the deep end. He started threatening the fan club owners with physical and legal harm until he had to be banned for everyone's safety. Then he tried to contact Olivia and her management to complain about the fan club kicking him out, and even contacted her lawyer. They had to break all ties with him because of his constant threats. He threatened Olivia with several lawsuits stating she favored that one fan club and supported himbeing kicked out. Eventually all professional contacts banned him from contacting him. The Olivia management team even hangs up on him when he calls.
He then started threatening other Olivia fans with lawsuits, stating they stole his original Olivia pictures to post on their personal sites, which was not true.
So, he created 'Forever and ALways' to, in his words "tell the truth" about Olivia. It isn't a fan site at all. the other club "Only Olivia" is the actual ONJ fan club.
If you go to this website now, "forever and always", you will see this quote from the site owner: "We love you Liv, but you have to allow us to love you along the way, because you are not in this alone."

OK let's look at that statement. The founder thinks it is his responsibility to "save" Olivia from something. What is it they are trying to save her from? and they claim they need to help her "not be in this alone"
If you research Michael Perry, the man in prison for stalking Olivia in the 1980's. You will also find he thought he was trying to save Olivia from some awful peril as well, when he tried to kill her. I am begging each of you to not consider supporting that fan site. It is frightening and Olivia is scared of them at the concerts.

Anonymous said...

Everything you need to know about the forever and always lunatic asylum is posted right here.Someone from that club posted right here that following Olivia's tour bus for 10 miles is'nt "serious stalking"!!!How scary is that!And to the person who said to me this incident does'nt represent their whole club, all i have to say is this person who followed the bus is named Kate and she is a moderator on that message board.So before you try and chastise me get your facts straight.There's only like 6 people who ever post on that board and she is one of them .Somebody also should tell her that instead of following Olivia's bus she should do something about that unibrow.I've seen less hair on chewbacca.

Anonymous said...

I heard that Michael Perry was released from jail, and is in fact the owner of "Forever and Always" he just uses a different name.
They talk exactly alike.
The above poster is right, Michael was claiming to rescue, and deliver Olivia from harm. Sound familiar?

Anonymous said...

Yes it has been questioned if he is Michael Perry. Some of the statements made on his website are very similar to what Perry said.
It is said he has recruited teenage girls for his new wesbite, who do not know the name Perry , and do not know the story, cause it was so long ago. He is recruiting these young girls who don't know what they are getting into. Using them to spread his message. It is creepy and I hope someone can stop him and help those girls that are working for him by passing out fliers and pamphlets on the street in his name.
This is the real reasons I have heard Koala Blue wines, ONJ Management, ONJ lawyers, and nameless other organizations and staff for ONJ do not respond to him when he calls or writes them.

Anonymous said...

How about the one chick who claims to be Olivia's friend. She is the scariest one on there. She posted this "You have already started in helping Olivia, it took ACTION on your part to get here"

How the hell are the helping Olivia? What is going on in their minds? They think she is in some deep trouble and it is up to them to save her, freaking weirdo, stay away fom them!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"Someone from that club posted right here that following Olivia's tour bus for 10 miles is'nt "serious stalking"!!!How scary is that!And to the person who said to me this incident does'nt represent their whole club, all i have to say is this person who followed the bus is named Kate and she is a moderator on that message board.So before you try and chastise me get your facts straight....4:04 PM"


Uhhh...you guys are paranoïd. Kids folowing a bus for 10 miles, excitedly, because they think their idol is in there, is something terrible? They must be criminals?

Oh, my, my..are you adults with normal intelligence????

You are all laughable..


It seems to be you (not F&A) trying to badmouth somebody else..

Anonymous said...

Michael Perry is on death row, so that can't be the founder of F&A who has been around since the 90s.

Capiche?

You guys are funny..


And we'd trust you for an informed opinion about F&A?


Leave them alone will you?

Anonymous said...

and just who is "you guys"
I am not in either fan club but looking at that "forever" board I can agree they are nuts.
Michael Perry can't be on death row, he didn't murder anyone

Anonymous said...

I think he killed his entire family.

Anonymous said...

Whoever decided to use someone's name on this thread? Before it was OO or Forever and Always. Now people are using actual names of persons in groups here. Not a wise decision.
Now back to the orginal thread, I hope for Olivia's benefit and any of her family's sake that no one in Olivia's circle was involved in helping Patrick disappear.
But if they were, I feel that Olivia might retire early. I express sympathy for Chance because his father is already considered a dead beat father by the media. And for Chloe because she is another one getting hurt because Patrick's disappearance is already hurting her recording career. She has postponed her CD twice. And when the media interviews her about the CD, the first question they will ask is, how is your mother and is she involved in Patrick's disappearance? The poor child will always have this hanging over her head because her mother dated a runaway-from-your-problems father.

Anonymous said...

"You guys" means all the ones who have to come up with these offensive theories about the founder of F&A, and who try to portray F&A as a bunch of nuts.

These charges are just false and insulting.

I don't care if they're from OO or not, i never said they were, i'm only reacting to these posts that are rubbish.
Naturaly, you may be able to find some flaws - or some hypothetical flaws - in some people on some boards.. there are strange things everywhere. But the utter contempt reserved for the people of that site is wrong.

They're generaly fine people and in no way does that site do anything Anti-Olivia.

If you check it's various sections (including the message board) it should be obvious that it is PRO-OLIVIA.
It's all about promoting and supporting her.

And admiring her. That Anti-Olivia charge is either silly or a just a fabricated lie.

How such lies and distortions as i've heard here could come about, is hard to understand. It would seem that someone (or many persons) is/are creating a false impression, using fragmentary information and rumors.

Like people who go off on that Michael Perry thing. The guy is on death row. He used to stalk Olivia. Later he murdered members of his own family and THEN went to jail.

It's on the Net you can find it all.

He's still on death row so it's not the guy who founded F&A back in the 90s and is still around..unlike Perry who's in jail.
F&A has had to deal with crap like that from the beggining. There are people who seem intent on discrediting them every step of the way.

Please try to check better, and counter-check what some people are telling you.

Because lies like the ones heard here are not new, F&A and it's founder have had to deal with them for years.

And they're still lies. You just have to notice how people here have come up with ridiculous suggestions (Michael Perry, etc) to realize how quickly and easily some people will say anything (whether it's intentional or not) that defames another person, without really being well-informed about that person.

Check things out properly, yourself. I can assure you that most if not all of what was said to this point against F&A
is false.

They are the target of some pretty awful misrepresentation.

Anonymous said...

And the lunatics at forever and always keep right on defending following a tour bus for 10 miles!!!!!!Can you be that dense????????OK guess i have to put it in a way that even the stalkers at F&A might get it but i doubt it.Why not ask Princess Diana how she feels about ANYONE following her car that she was in.Oh wait you can't because she's dead.Following anyone's car because there idol is inside IS NOT ok because your kid's are excited.It's called STALKING .Please don't try and justify it.It makes you even more dangerous.

Anonymous said...

The 'forever and always' founder is Michael Perry operating from a prison computer

Anonymous said...

I will admit the similarities between Mike Perry and the founder of "forever and always" are eerie, almost too coincidental, some of their statements are identical.
You have to realize the Perry guy also threatened Olivia in the very same way that 'you know who' does. He threatened her with lawsuits repeatedly.
The proof is in the pudding.
WHat was posted about ONK management cutting off all contact with "forever and always" is 100% true, because of the threats.
Like I said the proof is there. Wann aprove it instead of this small chit chat on this board? Contact Olivia's management team, go on, their address is easily located. Ask them what they think of "forever and always"
or better yet, contact any professional asociate of Olivis such as Koala Blue wines, and ask them WHY they refused to let "forever and always" put a link on their website, and vice versa KB wines refused to put a link to that "fan site" on the KB website. WHY? Because of the threats again.
Prove it to yourself and contact these people. Don't listen to he said/she said on this board.
The people at 'forever and always' are always screaming "lawsuit" , for an example of that, go up to the top of this thread and read several. When the truth is, all they do is use scare tactics and threats and they have BEEN CUT OFF permanently from any contact with Olivia Newton-John. So, sweethearts, read em and weep. Go ahead and try a lwasuit, you will be frying your own fish because we all know who is bigger and more pwerful in this situation.
DO your research about "forever and always", contact ONJ managment or KB wines, too name a few companies that have banned them from any contact.

Anonymous said...

"And the lunatics at forever and always keep right on defending following a tour bus for 10 miles!!!!!!Can you be that dense????????OK guess i have to put it in a way that even the stalkers at F&A might get it but i doubt it.Why not ask Princess Diana how she feels about ANYONE following her car that she was in.Oh wait you can't because she's dead.Following anyone's car because there idol is inside IS NOT ok because your kid's are excited.It's called STALKING .Please don't try and justify it.It makes you even more dangerous.

12:43 PM"



Pfffffffffffffffffft!!

What an idiot!!!

YOU are dangerous!

SILLY!

Anonymous said...

It's not because someone threathen's others with a (or several whatever) lawsuit that they're automaticaly nuts??

The person might have their reasons????


(And from what is said here, i think he could..)

Anonymous said...

Yeah, if they (OO) lied about him and are getting prefferential treatment (when they shouldn't), well it's normal this guy would want to take them to court.

I don't know what your problem with that could be...(whoever wrote about lawsuits...).

Some of you guys seem pretty damn unfair.

Anonymous said...

The guy could be dead. These are just rumors.

And if he was a "beard", well he didn't abandon her did he? Unless he broke his contract too soon..

;-)

Anonymous said...

oh sure, all of these companies that rake in million of dollars i.e ONJ management and KB wine are all wrong about banning the founder of 'forever' and he is the one who is right. The majority has spoken.

Anonymous said...

The King Lunatic is at it again.Forever and always assanine leader is bringing up Only Olivia's membership numbers again.Somehow he tries to say the 8oo members Only Olivia has(P.s. It's actually 1200)is insignificant.Meanwhile after 5 years his club only numbers in the thirties ,of which only about 6 post on his hatefull message board.Instead of worrying about his own pathetic club he is consumed with what OO is doing.Reminds me of the time last fall when OO raised $4000 Australian dollars for Olivia's hospital and he said that amount was awfull.So he deceided to start his own charity drive in a copy cat move and 2 people donated and then he abanded the charity.Please read this lunatic's post's on his messageboard.You can plainly see thatthis loon is obsessed with OO andis jealous of their members.He should be woorying about 1 of his 6 members following Olivia's tour bus but i guess he condone's stalking.Please D'amato stop your board moderator Kate from following Olivia's tour bus.It's dangerous!!!!Oh and also stop compareing OO's numbers to your club's.Can't you see it makes your club even more pathetic than it already is.

Anonymous said...

Hey the idiots who keep saying that it's dangerous,and criminal, than for young fans to follow (or try to) a bus, for a little while, tell us


WHY is it dangerous? Like, were they tailgaiting them? Were they speeding?

Or just following from a distance?

Sounds like you are the NUTS!



Poor you.

Anonymous said...

You sick bastard.Why is it dangerous?Because it's stalking.It's that plain and simple.You follow her bus for 10 miles and you try and justify it.You say we were not speeding,or tailgateing and you were just following your idol.Use all the excuses you want but get it through your thick skull that your a stalker and should be ashamed of yourself.I tell you what you creep.If it's so innocent ,the next time your at one of her shows and you pass Olivia a note like you did at one of her concerts, why don't you admit to Olivia that you followed her bus for 10 miles and see how she feels about it.Why don't you call Fitzgereld Hartley(her management company) and say ,"hey we followed her bus for 10 miles , Is that ok with you"?Of course you won't do any of this because you know it's stalking and would be too ashamed to admit you've done this or condone anyone that does this.Face it your all stalkers over at forever and always.And your so called founder bashes her all the time with the excuse"i'm just trying to better her career".All 6 paticipating members are sick bastards who condone stalking.

Anonymous said...

stalk
2 entries found for stalk.


Main Entry: 2stalk
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English bestealcian; akin to Old English stelan to steal -- more at STEAL
intransitive verb
1 : to pursue quarry or prey stealthily
2 : to walk stiffly or haughtily
transitive verb
1 : to pursue by stalking
2 : to go through (an area) in search of prey or quarry
3 : to pursue obsessively and to the point of harassment
- stalk·er noun
Here's the definition of stalker from the dictionary you dumb ass.Sounds like you need it .You qualify at #3.To pursue OBSESSIVELY and to the point of HARASSMENT....GET HELP YOU SICK BASTARD before someone dies like Princess Diana.

Anonymous said...

I just wonder, if her bus had pulled over for gas or stopped somewhere while those fans chased the bus, they would have gotten out of their car and ran up to her or the bus. I would be freaked out if someone followed me for 10 miles.

Anonymous said...

yes the founder does constantly degrade and bash her, then covers it up with "I am just looking out for her best concerns" or "I am not saying this is true, but it could be" while also stating her career is over, she used patrick, she should have paid his debts, blah blah blah
I wish Olivia's management could shut that site down somehow

Anonymous said...

I will say I was a member of OO up until two years ago. I am not a member of any fan club now or the other one you speak about.
OO people love to speak to you in person but behind your back its a different story.
Two years ago I went to dinner before an Olivia concert with a group of people from OO. Everyone seemed pleasant and later on after the concert, OO people ridiculed other members on how they acted at dinner, what they chose to eat and their table matters at dinner.
There is one blond woman who goes through hell getting tickets for OO members back east then several OO people gracefully thank her for the time and trouble then they have talked about her, behind her back on "how needy" she is and always on the message board.
Another poor soul who lives in Texas who is highly regarded on the message board then spoke ill of or told that I wish she would leave the board because she is always on and has nothing to contribute. I feel sorry for Winterangel.
Or how about another blond member who two OO members said they would love to gang rape her when they got her drunk.
Are these the kind of people to hang around? I don't think so!

Anonymous said...

There are some more that you missed:
One member inviting people to his hotel room after a concert and the gossip starts that he isn't really a good entertainer.
European members politely told to find another board because this is an American one. Or how about laughing with someone who loves to talk about Olivia's hair, clothing and makeup but behind his back, they're laughing at his stupid ideas for contributing.
Telling one member they wish he would ride in bike in traffic so he could die and be off the board.

Anonymous said...

I have never seen any of that stuff posted on the OO message board.

Anonymous said...

"Here's the definition of stalker from the dictionary you dumb ass.Sounds like you need it .You qualify at #3.To pursue OBSESSIVELY and to the point of HARASSMENT....GET HELP YOU SICK BASTARD before someone dies like Princess Diana.

4:00 AM
"

You're the dumbass, THEY WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING LIKE THAT!!

Before someone dies like Diana! HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

Are you a 6 year old kid?

Did you know it was possible to quietly follow a vehicle, without endangering anyone, just following them around a bit?
We're not talking high-speed chase. Just some young kids following, for fun, what they thought was Olivia's bus (it wasn't).

That's not criminal or bad, nor does it denote mental illness.

What's so hard about that?

Or are you just being influenced by some dishonest people to believe these lies and distortions they're spreading here - and elsewhere?

It's crap and that's all it is.
Deliberate bashing of someone who might reveal some embarassing truths about a certain group of fans.

Anonymous said...

there is some updated news on tabloid baby about ONJ and Patrick, about the controversy surrounding the missing hat
http://tabloidbaby.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

I don't think it is cool to post people's actual names on this board.

Anonymous said...

Actually I don't even think "Forever and Always" can boast even 30 members. People join the message board to post, not the site. Lots of people have requested he delete their user accounts after realizing the psychosis they have walked into. Yet he refuses to delete any account or username, even when they repeatedly tell him to take their names off his board member list.
Before you join remember, you cannot delete your account, user name, or other info from his board once you register it. Only the moderator can. And he will not, he will leave it up for spite. Also, he does not want his numbers to dwindle.
Many people on his member list do not go there anymore.

Anonymous said...

I love it Kate how the story keeps changing.Now you say it was'nt even Olivia's bus.Funny when you were bragging on your forever and always site that never came up.Your a sick bastard who shoud be trimming that unibrow with a weed whacker instead of stalking Olivia.You and damato deserve each other.
2 really sick bastards.It's a shame you think it's funny that princess Di was killed by people following her in cars.Everyone that love's Olivia can only wish it happens to you since you can't come to grips with your stalking behavior.Olivia sadly would be safer if you were dead.GET HELP

Anonymous said...

"Before you join remember, you cannot delete your account, user name, or other info from his board once you register it. Only the moderator can. And he will not, he will leave it up for spite. Also, he does not want his numbers to dwindle.
Many people on his member list do not go there anymore.

2:50 PM
"


You are wrong, he has deleted accounts in the past. They'd be over 50 and maybe even 60 now (instead of 30 something) if he hadn't done that.

Ah, people keep making things up..but as the truth comes out all your attacks will prove more and more vain and dishonest - or at least disingenuous.

Anonymous said...

Did you know it was possible to quietly follow a vehicle, without endangering anyone, just following them around a bit?
We're not talking high-speed chase. Just some young kids following, for fun, what they thought was Olivia's bus (it wasn't).

That's not criminal or bad, nor does it denote mental illness.

What's so hard about that?

How scary Is this post people??????????????????Plain and simple... IT"S STALKERS IN DENIAL!!The more she tries to justify her actions ,the clearer it becomes.This is what that website Forever and Always is about.

1:45 PM

Anonymous said...

"How scary Is this post people??????????????????Plain and simple... IT"S STALKERS IN DENIAL!!The more she tries to justify her actions ,the clearer it becomes.This is what that website Forever and Always is about."


Wow, Sigmund Freud in action!!!!

Of course, "stalkers in denial"...how could i have not think of that!!!!


I'm so mad at myself.. [snicker, snicker]


Hey, have you considered a position in the American Psychiatric Association?

I mean, they need little rats like you..oops, sorry i mean PEOPLE to study..(he! he! ;-) )

They like to study small minded folk, there are still so many of them around..
We need to do something about that, right?


Hey and get back to the subject! The bloggers know we're off..

Anonymous said...

Oh, and to the stalker fixated person(s), it's not "her" (the so-called 'stalker' acording to your paranoïd, idiotic ideas) talking here.

It's someone else who's been following the story..

Anonymous said...

Wow, a lot of people on here need Cognitive Behavioral Therapy by way of Client Center Therapy. In other words, behave people and get back to the original post! Or in simple terms for simple folk, grow up and stop insulting people.

Anonymous said...

Right, so then how would you know if it was olivia's bus or not.Don't try and hide you know too much about the story .F&A=STALKERS

Anonymous said...

"Wow, a lot of people on here need Cognitive Behavioral Therapy by way of Client Center Therapy. In other words, behave people and get back to the original post! Or in simple terms for simple folk, grow up and stop insulting people.

4:05 PM
"


Whoa! That's too advanced for some people here.

They think they're already experts in human behaviour..(stalker here and there, a founder who's suposedly deranged, etc. and all that based on skewed evidence. Geniuses i tell you..).


Yup let's get back on track!

Anonymous said...

skewed evidence??????you have already admitted following the bus???????f&A= stalker

Anonymous said...

"Right, so then how would you know if it was olivia's bus or not.Don't try and hide you know too much about the story .F&A=STALKERS

4:28 PM
"

WRONG AGAIN!

She told the whole story. We figured out later that they followed the wrong bus (Olivia was elsewhere in the country).

And again, your weak little speculation: F&A = stalkers..

Keep that to yourself, ok?

If that's all you have to bring to back up your big charges, better keep your mouth shut.

I'm sick and tired of your accusations of lies, stalking and other idiocies you invented.
You are offensive enough towards people you don't seem to know very well.

Why don't you stick to the article here? Instead of making outrageous, unfounded accusations about good people.

At least you would put your mind to better use.

Your behaviour on here is much, much worse than that of a few youngsters having some innocent fun following the bus of an idol, for a moment.

But i'm not certain you'd have the honesty to admit that..

Anonymous said...

Folowing a bus for 10 miles doesn't make someone a stalker, nor a criminal.
A real stalker is something much more serious than just kids having some innocent fun.

You seem to have BIG difficulty understanding this simple thing..

And "i" didn't follow it. Someone else did.

Prejudices die hard, don't they??..

Anonymous said...

Folowing a bus for 10 miles doesn't make someone a stalker, nor a criminal.
A real stalker is something much more serious than just kids having some innocent fun.......................................UMMMMMMMMMMMMM the simple fact that you just can't seem to get is this...Following a bus for 10 miles DOES make someone a stalker..Your a dumb bastard if you just can't admit that.It's that simple.

Anonymous said...

Your behaviour on here is much, much worse than that of a few youngsters having some innocent fun following the bus of an idol, for a moment...........................................How scary is this comment??????????????????

Anonymous said...

She told the whole story. We figured out later that they followed the wrong bus (Olivia was elsewhere in the country)...........................................It happenned on the same day at an Olivia concert the stalker "kate" was attending.How in the hell could Olivia be out of the country???????Get your head out of your ass.

Anonymous said...

Hang on a second, I have to stop laughing. I really liked the comment that I was Michael Perry running the site from a prison cell. That was priceless. Do you honestly think that Olivia's people, if they were worth a damn, would allow that to happen? Aren't you the same folks saying how dangerous this person is? I am just amazed at how stupid and idiotic some of your "brains" are.

I even enjoyed the one from the person who said they were at a concert where I was taken out in handcuffs. Another priceless load of crap. I will tell that person to his/her face they are an outright liar.

I would like to know where that information came from that Olivia's business associates have been TOLD not to deal with us. Since when? No one told us that fact.

We deal with CHEC all the time. Same with the ONJCC. It is hard to deal with KB Wines because they WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. Most people who know Sean Neylon know he is an ass. I have friends that know Del Shores and all of them say he is a loser. It isn't my fault Olivia picks the friends and associates she does. The very situation with Patrick shows she should pick her friends with a little more disgression.

We have a DIRECT link to Michelle Day's website.

Olivia's management never stopped dealing with us because of threats or any other reason. They NEVER dealt with us. Get the story right.

As far as the letter from her attorney stating it is her policy to not support any fan club. Any one who would like to see it, I will MAIL you a copy.

That letter was written in April of 1998 at EXACTLY the same time Olivia's Back With A Heart CD was being released. On that CD WAS OO's web address. So, that statement about "things change" is nothing but crap because this was going on since the mid 90's even BEFORE F&A came to be. Again, you don't know what you are talking about.

Someone bragged about OO raising $4000 for ONJCC. (Actually it was $3900 but we all know they can't tell the truth) Well, if you divide $4000 by 800 people you get a whopping $5.00 per person. Wow what an amazing feat that was!!! I have personally donated more than that.($5) OO should have raised $16,000 ($20 per person)easily.

But since you want to get really nasty and pick on people like Kate who thinks the world of Olivia, how come none of you mentioned a special OO member named Kim who FAKED an illness to get a backstage pass to see Olivia. Rumor also has it she invited Olivia TO HER HOUSE. I guess you wouldn't consider that being a stalker though would you? But you would consider a harmless girl like Kate, following Olivia's bus to be the worse thing a fan could do. At least you are all being fair!!

How about the fact that some OO members BRAG about attending EVERY SINGLE U.S. concert or event Olivia is at anywhere in the country? Some might consider THAT stalking. But I guess an OO supporter wouldn't consider that stalking apparently.

Then there is the guy who lives in California who was arrested for child porn and was also harrassing a minor. (By the way, he is a married man.) No one mentioned that OO member either.

I can see why Olivia would want to support a group made up of people like that.

These are not fantasies I made up. This is factual information.

It is also NOT true that Olivia refused to put a messageboard on her site because she didn't want us to do battle there. Her site came on line in Feb. of 2000. F&A didn't even have a messageboard at that time. Besides that even the biggest idiot knows people can be deleted from the board if they cause problems. Ask OO, they delete people all the time for "not fitting in." So once again, your "facts" are nothing but crap.

I also NEVER threatened to sue Olivia personally. I did threaten to sue her management for discrimation in 1999 when THEY decided to lie about Olivia's policy regarding fan clubs. That is EXACTLY what they are doing.

Someone said we have only 40 members. How could you possibly know how many members we have? That is the number of people registered on the messageboard which has no more to do with fan club membership than the number of registered users on the OO board.

By the way, in regards to the accusations about OO stealing some of the photos off of my site, that is also fact. That person was the head of the Australian branch of OO at the time. He also stole from MANY other Olivia sites. The OO management told the webmasters involved NOT TO TELL ANYONE about what had happened because it would make OO look bad. That person in Australia was kicked out of the fan club in secret and none of the webmasters was EVER offered an apology.

Now you talk about my/our obsession with OO? Well, I can prove they have intentionally mislead fans, and its own members in the past about special concert seating.I also know they have lied about European tours that were never supposed to happen which has alienated Olivia's European fans because they blame Olivia not the source of the lie (OO).

I also have evidence the fan club commited fraud in 1997 by coersing members to donate to one of Olivia's charities through them by claiming donors names would be put on a "special list" and given to Olivia. Guess what, there was NO list given to Olivia. The donations were NEVER made in the names of the people who donated. They were all made in the name of the fan club. I know this because I donated and called the charity who ALWAYS sends a thank you letter to the donor personally. They say they NEVER got a donation from me at that time.

OO claims they raised more money that year than in their history. I wonder why? That, my friend, IS fraud.

The fan club was investigated a few years ago by its own members because members were questioning where their dues actually go because the fan club couldn't do a simple thing like gets its newsletters out on time. Members were NOT compensated for lost newsletters that were paid for. All they got were excuses, and the fan club managers, by the way, REFUSED to open the books.

By the way, that thread questioning the money flow was quickly deleted from their messageboard as are any other attempts by posters to rock their boat or question anything. The posters are usually banned shortly after that.

I find it amazing that in none of the attacks about my group has anyone told us of all the wonderful things OO does for Olivia. Sounds like they don't have much to say about that. That doesn't surprise me.

Their "convention" is coming up soon. As always, it is in a city that Olivia will be performing in at the same time. That is the only way they can get their members to attend the convention is to have Olivia be performing to attract them. Also that "convention" is NOT to promote Olivia, it is NOT to promote how great their fan club is or even to discuss how they can better promote Olivia. It isn't even about Olivia at all. It is nothing more than a members only social gathering. Instead of inviting ALL Olivia fans and maybe doing some recruiting for Olivia and their cause as MOST conventions do, they have a closed meeting which excludes 99% of her fans. They have no interest in any fan not in their group.

By the way, OO has been having conventions for most of its existance. Olivia has NEVER attended a single one nor will she ever. That goes to show the kind of respect she has for those "special fans".

Someone brought up that I mentioned OO only had 800 members. Isn't that a pretty POOR showing for a group that HAS Olivia's support? Maybe they should try embrassing her fans instead of attacking them. People might actually want to belong to their group. If the best they can do is 800 members out of millions of fans, Olivia is in serious trouble.

"He started threatening the fan club owners with physical and legal harm until he had to be banned for everyone's safety. Then he tried to contact Olivia and her management to complain about the fan club kicking him out, and even contacted her lawyer. They had to break all ties with him because of his constant threats."

This is an outright lie. I NEVER threatened anyone at OO with physical harm. I also wasn't banned for that reason. I was banned because I didn't get items I paid for with my membership dues (the newsletter for one) and I dared to complain about it. Instead of making good on the things I paid for, the fan club owner, Richard Mudhar, called me a liar, saying I did get them and threw me out of the fan club for that reason. All this over a newsletter that got lost in the mail. All I wanted was a replacement. Instead, he showed that famous OO respect and hospitality OO has for Olivia's fans and kicked me out.

I also NEVER contacted her attorney. He contacted me saying that they could do NOTHING about what happened because Olivia, "doesn't own or have any input in that fan club nor does she support or promote any fan club as official or otherwise."

Because I responded with the fact that OO WAS in fact being supported because they were promoted on her Back With A Heart CD, that is when it eventually lead to HIM threatening to sue ME if I didn't drop the subject. My response to that was to go ahead because that would give me the chance to present my evidence publically as the what was really going on. He NEVER pursued the issue after that. What I disliked about the situation was Olivia's management's and attorney's lack of honesty in dealing with obvious "facts."

I am not surprised that the best some of you can to is to attack us with NO facts or evidence instead of addressing the real issue here as to supporting Olivia in this Patrick situation. Isn't this what this blog is all about? Where are all of you big mouths when it comes to her defence? You are so busy attacking our group that you don't have time to stand up for Olivia, your hero. Just me, the stalker, as you call me, is the only one with the GUTS to come to her defense. Where are the rest of her "fans." This is not about fan clubs. This is about Olivia. so instead of avoiding the issue, how about confronting it or are you just too cowardly to do so?

And if you are going to continue to attack us, at least try and come up with factual evidence and not act like a bunch of 2 year olds who can't do any better than call us names.

To those who did come to our and Olivia's defense, I thank you. You are at least being fair.

To those of you who have claimed to have seen me arrested at concerts and guilty of doing other idiotic things at her concerts, you wouldn't know me if you saw me. Where is your proof because you saying it doesn't prove anything considering some of the other stupid things being said here.

As far as Olivia being afraid of our group attending her concerts, how would she even know we attended them? Does she have everyone's name, address, and fan club affiliation who purchased a ticket?

If all the other stories told have no credibility, how could this one?

Do any of you honestly think if Olivia or her management thought we were a threat to her, they would even let us continue? How stupid do some of you think we are?

Some of you people need to pull your heads out of your ass and wake up to the real world.

Anonymous said...

AHHHHHHHHHHH finally the rantings and ravings of the king lunatic himself.Now we have his phone book size post.Notice something?????In all that crap he just spewed out not a single mention of Kate following that bus?How come Bill?Can't defend your board moderator?Guess i have to come out and ask directly.Do you condone your members following her bus?Is that or is that not stalking?Can't wait to see you add phony excuses that makes this an ok thing to do.

Anonymous said...

Lawdy, lawdy lawdy. At first when I came here I thought how awful that a site like this posts this typw of story and then was horrified when I began reading some of the posts. About halfway through, I was glad I came here because I couldn't stop laughing. Then I got to the hair loss post and nearly lost it. And the unibrow/Chewbacca comment made me lose it. I nearly pissed myself. This is tabloind entertainment at its best. But I think the story should be taken with a grain of salt nothing is fact and most of the stuff is speculation and made up. Like Olivia has said in the past "When people can't find anythin gbad to say about you, they make stuff up". I think there are nuts in both clubs, you gotta take the good with the bad.

With that said I cannot believe that this tabloid baby site even exists, but want to thank them for a most humourous 30 minutes reading through these comments. I normally go to the F&A website just for shits and giggles because some of the things they talk about is way out there. Unibrow always agreeing with Bill as if to justify their existence. The person cannot even have a mind of their own. And then the constant rantings of the site owner. Woo Wee! I may come back later on for some entertainment.

Anonymous said...

well I think the King, in his attempt to say he is not insane, has proven that he is indeed a nut. can you believe that stuff?

Anonymous said...

Is it me, or is Livfan doing some serious ass-licking on Damato's ass?

Anonymous said...

LICK IT LICK IT LICK IT GIRL LICK IT

Anonymous said...

anybody else aware of how he constantly changes his story? Last version of it he said it was only the newlsetter he didn't get, now he didn't receive "other" items (lie)
and nobody threatened him with a lawsuit, it was very much him doing the threatening, and not only to OO. As was said before, if you want proof of his threats, contact ONJ management or KB wines.

Anonymous said...

Oh and he says he never contacted her lawyer? He did, he even still boasts of the letter he received from the lawyer in response.
Also he is stuck on that 800 number. (autism)

Anonymous said...

There never was an Australian "branch" of OO , and nobody was ever kicked out for stealing pictures. All the pictures on any ONJ site are not owned by anyone unless they were original photos.
I think that guy is a stone throw away from snapping into pure lunacy.

Anonymous said...

WHAT A SHAME!!!!! I HOPE, THAT OLIVIA WILL NEVER READ OR HEAR OF THIS COMMENTS! I'M NOT A MEMBER OF ANY FAN-CLUB AND I'M PROUD OF IT.

NOBODY IS DENFENDING OLIVIA IN THIS COMMENTS AND NOBODY IS HERE TO STAND UP FOR HER AND NOBODY RESPECTS HER PRIVATE LIFE!

A REAL FAN FROM GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

For Christ's sake!!!!!!
People, can't we just let this thread go and stop insulting all Olivia fans including: Kate, Kim, Bill, Winterangel and everyone in Forever and Always and Only Olivia. If a young fan was just discovering Olivia and saw this thread, he/she would think twice about getting mixed up with either fan site or even following Olivia's career in general. Let it be, this is really getting out of hand!

Anonymous said...

Is it me, or is Livfan doing some serious ass-licking on Damato's ass? 7:13 AM


It's you. No-brains, anonymous poster.

Anonymous said...

http://www.alwaysolivia.com/kateonj1.jpg Here's the link to Mrs.chewbacca's stalking picture.What do you think she's saying to Olivia?Olivia is it ok if i follow your bus for 10 miles?Look at the look on olivia it's like "I ain't taking my shades off and get this stalker away from me.The good news is Mrs. chewbacca when you start balding like crazy Damato you can comb those eyebrows back over your head in a combover.

Anonymous said...

http://www.alwaysolivia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=675 This reminds me i need more line for my weedwhacker.

Anonymous said...

a picture of the king himself
http://myspace-084.vo.llnwd.net/00361/48/07/361827084_s.jpg

Anonymous said...

http://myspace-084.vo.llnwd.net
/00361/48/07/361827084_s.jpg

Anonymous said...

There seems to be a relationship between our spiritual maturity and speaking the truth in general. It seems our culture places little value on truth. We will lie to protect our image, avoid awkward situations, financial stress; in general, just to make our lives seem more convenient or make us feel more important. This above poster seems to do this to theirself by imitating people they do not know.
In God's economy truth is of much greater value, He associates it with his very character, "I am the way, the truth and the life." John 14.6
The above poster does not have the truth nor the will power to leave well enough alone.

Anonymous said...

Hi above poster, while you may think you have found "divine intervention" , there is one small thing God forgot to teach you, and that is spelling...oh honey, you spelled a word wrong..for example sweetie, let's look at your grammar: your quote
"This above poster seems to do this to theirself by imitating people they do not know."
What is "theirself"?
What does that mean?
Maybe next time God speaks through you, you should give him a spellcheck.
Dork.

Anonymous said...

There are days when I wish I were some Hollywood bigwig, because then I would be able to reach out to Olivia and really make a difference for her. There would be no having to contend with idiot management because they would be allowing me all the time I wanted with Olivia without restrictions. That would mean that I could actually make real progress for her. My suggestions and criticisms would not be shinned on because I am a bigshot in the business, even though I would be saying exactly the same things I am saying here every day. Even though I am the same person, my social status would make what I had to say more "credible." ............................Here is more scary rantings from the king loon D'amato on his website.How freakin scary is that??????????????...."All the time with Olivia that i want"...C'mon everyone repeat after me.............. STALKER

Anonymous said...

View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Billd



Joined:
Posts: 877
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:26 am Post subject: For You

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is something I wrote for Olivia back in 1992 during her health battle. It is one of three poems I wrote for her then, which were put to music. This one was entered into a poetry contest and won an award. I wanted to share that award with Olivia because she was the inspiration behind it. When I tried to contact her to give her the good news, I never got a response. I just wanted her to know she was not out there alone. Someone did care.

This has been published and is copyrighted.

For You

VERSE 1
For you, the very sun rises in the morning.
It shines in all its glory, just for you.
Your beauty is endless and your body is magic.
Of all the wonders of the world, you are the grandest.

CHOURS 1
I would sail the sea, for a touch of your hand.
I would move the mountains, to hold you so tight.
I would defy the heavens, for a moment of you.
I would travel to the stars, to feel your kiss.
I would move the earth, to win your love.
I would do anything at all, For You.

VERSE 2
You are the mystery of all mysteries, I need to know.
Are you all the thngs I think you are?
This promise to you, I make willingly and freely.
You will never be alone, you will always be within me.

CHOURS2
I could sail the sea, with a touch of your hand.
I could move the mountains, while holding you tight.
I could defy the heavens, with a moment of you.
I could travel to the stars, as I feel your kiss.
I could move the earth, when I win your love.
I could do anything at all, For You.
_________________
Olivia, when I look into your eyes, I see all the wonders of the universe.

Here's another gem written by King lunatic D'amato taken from his Olivia bashing website Forever and Always..The Only thing he should do is re-title it.The stalkers poem by Bill D'Amato!!!!!!!!Does anyone else hear the twilight zone theme music while reading this????????Cmon everyone repeat after me.......STALKER

Anonymous said...

This is one of the rants that the founder of Forever and Always has posted on his "My Space" blog:


In my first entry, I gave you some background as to what was going on with Olivia and Patrick. As I said before, there are some strange twists to all of this.

Probably the strangest of all twists is the length of time between the time that Patrick "disappeared" and the time his disappearance was reported. It was several weeks later from the time of the actual disappearence to the time that Olivia spoke up asking for help in this case. Now, some folks may jump to the conclusion that Olivia waited because she was or is somehow involved deeper than she is willing to admit to. That is of course a possibility, but it is highly unlikely. What motives would she have to do this? It would be far better for her to pay his debts, including his back child support rather than risk thousands of dollars in fines and maybe millions in legal fees should she be found to be part of this scheme. Let's also not forget it would end her career since she would face deportation from the U.S.

The other possibilities I think are far more feasible. It is my opinion that Olivia just didn't know until close to the time she made her statement. Olivia was not in the U.S. at the time of Patrick's disappearance so it is UNLIKELY she could have known. Olivia wasn't the one who actually reported Patrick's disappearance anyway, it was his ex-wife Yvette Nipar. The question we should all be asking is why did Nipar wait almost 3 weeks to report him missing? For that matter, why has Nipar be silent through this entire investigation? She certainly has a much larger stake in all this than Olivia does because Nipar is the one Patrick owed the back child support to.

It is a known fact that Patrick took out a large insurance policy on himself with his son as beneficiary. That would mean that if Patrick were to "die" , Chance, his son would inherit the money. To die, Patrick would have to be ruled officially dead, he would NOT actually have to be physically dead.

Patrick disappeared while on a fishing trip last June. First thoughts were he commited suicide by jumping off the boat. However, suicide would VOID the insurance policy. That is the last thing Patrick would want people to think. The preferred method of "death" would be by accident. That would make the policy valid and the insurance company would have to pay on that basis.

By shear convenience Patrick left all his IDs on the boat, passport, driver's license, wallet, credit cards and car keys. Anyone find it strange he wouldn't have his wallet with his DL and Credit card ON HIS PERSON? However, if he did that how could HE prove he was actually on the boat? If he wanted to commit suicide why would he leave his IDs behind? Why would it matter that people know where he did it? Who would care where he did it?

Nope, he wanted people to know where he was because he wanted people to think it was an accident. That is why he left all his IDs in plain sight so there could me no mistake he was on that boat. There was also NO CASH in his wallet. Only some loose change was found. Why not? If he was commiting suicide why would he be worried about cash in his wallet? Why would he not take the coins?

That is the main reason why I have always thought Patrick faked his death and he is infact alive today.

Living in the Los Angeles area as Patrick did and I do, I know how easy it is to obtain false documents for just about anything. L.A. is the false document capital of the world unfortunately. Don't believe me? Just ask any illegal alien. They can tell you how easy it is to get a driver's license, green card, passport or fake social security number. Cost runs between $300-$500 and you are a full fledged American citizen with a brand new ID.

Patrick probably could afford the few hundred dollars to get these documents. However, there are some aspects of this plot he could not afford.

When the event was first reported there was a inconsistancy in what exactly happened when the boat docked back in San Pedro. At first, the crew said Patrick paid his food bill which meant he had to be alive at that time. Then it was reported people saw him get off the boat. If that were true it would certainly rule out accident or suicide. Some said they didn't see him get off the boat. The captain said there is no way he could have fallen off the boat at that time because someone would have seen him.

A year later, June 2006, we hear the boat actually made a stop not previously disclosed by ANYONE on that trip. The boat made a stop in Mexico for refueling. Now, call me crazy, but wouldn't you think that if someone is missing from your boat and you are being investigated by the police, press, etc. that you might want to mention that fact initially? Something stinks here folks. Think it is pure coincidence that this previously undisclosed stop pops up at the same time people are reporting seeing Patrick in Mexico?

This smells of conspiracy. What are the chances that EVERY single person on that boat "forgot" about the stop in Mexico? That means Patrick could not have done this alone. He needed help for someone with the money to pull this off. Every person on that boat would have had to have been paid off or coersed into forgetting about that stop in Mexico, or about seeing Patrick after the boat docked.

There is one person who we know have the financial status to do this. That person is Olivia. However, again, she would not have a logical motive to do such a thing. As I said above, she has far more to lose by being involved in this scheme. She would be much better off to pay his debts. Although that possibility is not off the table, it is a remote one at best.

So, if not Olivia, who? Well, how about those near Olivia who might feel that Patrick was a bad apple that needed to be dealt with? He was, afterall, a dead beat not once but TWICE in the past 10 years. He does have a reputation of a bad temper and it was reported he started drinking again. He is certainly not the kind of person Olivia could afford to risk her reputation on. That would certainly be a motive for her management, promo people and attorneys to put up the money to rid her of him, by paying off the witnesses and maybe putting $100,000 in a Swiss account for him somewhere. This could EASILY be done without Olivia even knowing, keeping her out of it and innocent of any wrong doing.

Here is another theory: Patrick may have had some gambling debts he couldn't pay to some unsavory people. Being Olivia's boyfriend that could subject Olivia and her family to potential danger. That would be still another reason for her people to wisk him off the face of the earth. Now that he may have been sighted, the situation could again be dangerous to Olivia and family. There is the possiblity that Olivia, herself or her daughter might be the target of kidnapping for ransom or worse.

This is why the best scenario for this situation would be for him to be legally dead and never seen again. That would put an end to all of this.

There are a few others things, I want to discuss in the next installment, such as how Olivia's family has NOT helped her cause and Patrick's family may be also be involved deeper than people think.

Anonymous said...

God still loves agnostic and atheistic people who make fun of others. God is watching!

Anonymous said...

Dear Lord I just can't stomach reading anything he writes.

Anonymous said...

Yeah about that "poem" or "song" or whatever he calls it. You forgot to mention that he mailed it to Olivia and she sent it back, return to sender, and it wasn't even opened. That gives you a clue of what Olivia thinks of him.

Anonymous said...

Ok, this is just stupid. She would honestly have her "staff" pay people off to "forget" their stop in Mexico? WHY? Hello?? Why wouldn't she just say..."Dude, you're a loser and a drunk. I break with thee, I break with thee, I break with thee." DUH. She'd still get the same "poor you" publicity (Poor Olivia had to deal with this drunk for all those years). Why would she even think about paying off his bills or the other people on the boat for that matter. Give it up people. Get on with your lives

Anonymous said...

Don't you find it strange that we only hear 1 year later that there was this stop wich could have helped Patrick escape?

Whether Olivia paid or not is not what I'm talking about.

This whole thing seems strange.

And because of that, it could have been organised ..By whom we don't know.

Anonymous said...

But if she paid or not is what I'm talking about. There is no reason under the sun for her to do so. If it were "organized", I cannot see why it would be by her or anyone connected with her. How could she be so stupid? And why?

Anonymous said...

This is the most retarded site I've ever been on. I know it's called Tabloid Baby, but is there any truth to anything posted on here. I don't think so. They either make things up (Patrick was a beard for Olivia) or they post rumors (Olivia is dating a bald, fat millionaire - she should sue for slander on that one) Who said freedom of speech was a good thing.

I hope that Patrick is found safe and well. That is the only thing that matters.

Anonymous said...

No response huh D'amato???Kate has admitted following Olivia's bus in post's on your website.That's not a rumor that's a FACT.I asked you if you condone this kind of behavior from your board moderator.Of course you run and hide and don't respond.What a shame.I was going to debate you on all that other crap you said in your phone book size post from above but i see that won't happen.Your gutless and are avoiding this question here.Allowing your members to follow Olivia's bus is criminal.Nice group of stalker's you have there.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous from 11.32 (114 comments i think)...at last a reasonable and intelligent comment.
That tabloid baby site is ridiculous. Sitting on their chairs behind their computers they think to know the truth about people and facts. It's dramastic for them.
Olivia has nothing to share with us or with her fans. It's her private life. Since she met Patrick they always kept their life as private as possible (i say as possible because when you're a public figure to succeed to keep your life private, you are always a little complelled to give a bone to gnaw to the starving dogs that are the medias)...and it's funny to see how finally this normal behaviour seems abnormal in that world of bad taste which is the world of the medias and show business. Olivia will never read that site or comments she has others things to do in life. It's maybe what irritate the envious and the frustrated, in spite of the hardships she has always said she had a blessed life.
I love and admire her. And i wish very strong that Patrick is safe. If he's alive and he choose to leave it's his choice. And it will be his choice to come back or not.
Not Extra or Tabloid baby choices.

Anonymous said...

When I hear people say "The only thing that matters is that Patrick is found safe" makes me want to barf.
None of you would care or give a shit about him if he had no connection to Olivia Newton-John.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that relevation Einstein.But before you make that statement would we have even heard about him if it was'nt for Olivia?Before you barf maybe think about that.

Anonymous said...

I find it sad that you all call yourselves "fans". You are all a reflection on Olivia, I hope your all proud of yourselves for making yourself and Olivia look bad.

Anonymous said...

A reflection on Olivia? It isn't like she gave birth to us.

Anonymous said...

That was the kind of comment I would expect from someone who posts on Tabloid Baby. Now go barf all you want. I hope you choke on it.

Anonymous said...

You are posting here too fat chick!

Anonymous said...

I think my nephew can come up with a better response. And he's 2.

Anonymous said...

Kate
Private Moderator


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 1373
Location: CT
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:16 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't beleive someone could say such hurtful things. These people are idiots, they are not true fans.
_________________
Here we have The bus follower Kate posting on the stalker site Forever and always.She constantly bashes OO .Now when there is an open forum she talks about people saying hurtfull things.Guess we can add hypocritical to Mrs. Chewbacca's qualities.Stop following Olivia's bus kate That's more hurtfull than anything said here.

Anonymous said...

Why don't you stop harassing everyone at Forever and Always and Kate.
I bet you don't even post at Only Olivia, all you do is cause trouble for everyone there as well.
If you are a man then step up to the plate; why don't you give us your name on this forum, so we know who to address as well. You love to hide from your own identity and tell lies about people who don't even know.
It's about time to come forward because actually this is getting boring listening to your ramblings.

Anonymous said...

Ramblings?????????????????LOL!!!!!!!!!The forever and always founder king lunatic D'amato post's 20 paragraph's of crap and you acuse me of rambling???Kate (Mrs.chewbacca)post's nothing but bull**** about OO on the F&A stalker website.She can dish it out but not take it i guess.She has bragged about following Olivia's bus on that website.Fellow F&A members have even tried to justify it here.Don't you dare tell me to step up to the plate until all you F&A stalkers step up to the plate and admit your board moderator is completly out of line following that tour bus.THAT'S stepping up to the plate.King Lunatic D'amato or Mrs. Chewbacca herself needs to step up to the plate and denounce this dangerous behavior.

Anonymous said...

I am also who this person is who keeps attacking Kate. I don't know that what she did is so wrong. As in following the bus. I guess we all have wondered what Olivia does when she isn't being a star. I really don't think following the bus was harmful in any way. It was just a teenager following her idol for awhile. I mean, when the Beatles were hot, girls actually broke into their hotel rooms and concocted all kinda of wild schemes to meet the Beatles. I think Olivia should worry, when, and if, nobody cared enough to follow her, to see what she does when not being the incredible person she is. Olivia actually knows who Kate is. This was proven at a concert when Kate went up to the stage and Olivia mouthed "hey Kate"
She really isn't the monster you all make her out to be. She makes mistakes we all made as teenagers. if anyone hasn't done something wrong, then throw the first stone. But whoever this person is that keeps bringing this "stalking" up. with Kate as the people you are accusing of being stalkers.
Maybe Kate is the one who should be afraid of you? You do seem to have an unhealthy obsession with her.

Anonymous said...

Correction my first sentence should read: I am also wondering who this person is who keeps attacking Kate.
But this website won't let you edit.
I think it is easy to post these things when you can remain anonymous, but if we really knew who you are, would you be saying this?
And damn it am I the only one who can't read the damn "letters" to enter when you wanna post anonymous on here, and have to try 2 or 3 times LOL?

Anonymous said...

damn this site cuts out portions of posts: it should read:
But whoever this person is that keeps bringing this "stalking" up.Well you seem as obessessed with Kate as the people you are accusing of being stalkers.

Anonymous said...

Why don't we all focus on Olivia's new CD?
In case any of you didn't know. She is coming out with a new age ambience CD soon.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that Olivia is coming out with a new ambience CD, maybe she can put the harassing fan into another dimension, the twilight zone!

Anonymous said...

As in following the bus. I guess we all have wondered what Olivia does when she isn't being a star. I really don't think following the bus was harmful in any way.(post from above) STALKER ALERT!!!!!!STALKER ALERT!!!!STALKLER ALERT!!!!!Yes a FAN wonders what Olivia does when she's not being a star.However a STALKER takes it to the next level and follows the tour bus.Can you be that dense that you don't understand the difference?Another F&A stalker backer heard from .SCARY!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Nope wrong, not an F&A person. I do recognize misery and hate when I see it, and you are the poster boy for it. Nobody is impressed with you, other than yourself.

Anonymous said...

Kate stalker alert Kate stalker alert

Anonymous said...

There's a fu*king twit here who thinks he (she?)'s some sort of genius..

The only human being on Earth too stupid to think that no one else understands how following the bus of your idol isn't necessarily sinister... just admirative, gawking youngsters who act out of enthusiasm, not malice.

Quit trying to spin the event as something nasty. It isn't.

And you look like a nasty fool. That's what you end up doing to yourself you prick..

You seem so mean-spirited that it's easy to believe that Kate is millions of times better than you..

Anonymous said...

I have read this "persons" accusations of Kate. And I must say, I would rather have a fun evening a million times over with Kate than this hate filled miserable person anyday.
Oh and by the way, I was also at the concert when Olivia took Kate's note and mouthed "Hi Kate" and smiled at her.

Anonymous said...

I think many of you should take Olivia's advice. Even though you try to set Kate apart, and make her an outcast, Olivia actually reached out to her at a concert. Many of us were amazed to see Olivia say "Hey kate" in mid-song when kate came up to the stage. It shows to prove she does know what is going on, and how many of you try to make her feel unworthy. Well guess what, Olivia took Kate's side and pointed her out among the many fans who approached the stage. Olivia defends the underdog? Jealous are you?? I expect nothing less from Olivia. She has risen above this pettiness.

Anonymous said...

Just as many of these posters who feel so insignificant in their lives, they try to do that to many Olivia fans. Funny how Olivia knows who the "neglected" ones are. And she evens answers their mail and remembers them in her concerts.
I guess puffy, gay bitter men who do not get noticed are bitter, but hey, so would I if I was in your oversized Wal-mart khakis.

Anonymous said...

You poor dumb bastards.............I was also at this show and while Mrs. Chewbacca did hand Olivia a note , there is no way in hell Olivia called her by name.She just said thank you.I was close enough to see this. I thought Kate had a small dog in front of her face when she passed me but it was just those eyebrows.Anyway no matter what the unibrow passed to Olivia or what Olivia said to Mrs.Chewbacca ,What in the hell does that have to do with the fact that it's wrong to follow anyone's tour bus for 10 miles.Come up with all the excuses you want F&A members,It just proves what i have been saying .F&A=STALKERS

Anonymous said...

I must say, I would rather have a fun evening a million times over with Kate than this hate filled miserable person anyday.(post from above)The only thing i hate is her following the tour bus.The fact you want to join her makes you a stalker also....or a wookie

Anonymous said...

The only human being on Earth too stupid to think that no one else understands how following the bus of your idol isn't necessarily sinister... just admirative, gawking youngsters who act out of enthusiasm, not malice.(post from above).STALKER ALERT!Believe me there is not a single person who is'nt an F&A member who does'nt think following a tour bus for 10 miles is'nt a stalking activity.Your explanation is just bull****.I understand why she is doing that.I understand that Olivia is her idol.What you can't seem to get through your head is that it's wrong and POTENTIALLY dangerous.I've said it before and i'll say it again because you ignore it all the time.If it's so innocent fun like you say all the time ,Why not ask Olivia if its ok with her?Of course you never would because you KNOW it's wrong.STALKER ALERT!

Anonymous said...

Quit trying to spin the event as something nasty. It isn't.(post from above) No spin is nessasary.It's wrong and you know it.

Anonymous said...

Quit trying to spin the event as something nasty. It isn't.(post from above) No spin is nessasary.It's wrong and you know it.

You guys are simple-minded or just plain nasty!!!!! (insert laughing emoticon).

So Kate is this terrible person because she followed a bus for 10 miles?

Even though her intentions were fine?

And they weren't endangering anyone? (it wasn't a high-speed, greedy chase à la Diana, just a quiet, perfectly safe thing).

You want us to believe that that proves she's a stalker?

That she's a psychopath? And of course the rest of F&A are?

Are you freakin' kidding?

You sound like a MORON!!!!

You're the dangerous person, using this tiny, insignificant event and trying to build up your preposterous theory.

Go home, bad guy! - rotflmao!!!!

Anyone can tell you guys are desperate to defame F&A. You don't care about the truth.
You just want to knock them down.

You don't fool anybody!

Hey what about these people at OO who talk behind other people's backs or dream of raping a particular woman?

Now that's bad. You never talk about that, do you.

Anyway, your idiotic little ideas, whether they are sincere or concocted to defame many individuals, are SILLY.

No one could take you seriously.

Anonymous said...

So Kate is this terrible person because she followed a bus for 10 miles?

Even though her intentions were fine?
UMMMMMMMMMMMMM.Yes.It's called stalking you poor dumb bastard.

Anonymous said...

Hey what about these people at OO who talk behind other people's backs or dream of raping a particular woman?(post from above)People dreaming about doing horrible things or talking behind peoples back, like you mentioned certainly are very poor personal traits ,if true.Of course you have no proof of these events, they are just rumors that your King lunatic spouts out adnauseum.However Kate following the bus really did happen.She admitted it on the stalker site forever and always and all the stalkers from there continue to defend her actions here.If your tiny little mind thinks dreams or talking behind people's backs are as bad as actually following a tour bus,i pity you.Nice try trying to change the subject too by the way.Shame on you for making fun of Princess Diana's death.I'm sure in your mind that's not as bad as talking behind someone's back.I'm sure Olivia would be happy to associate with all you sick bastards .NOT

Anonymous said...

How can guys there fantasize about raping a woman? They are all gay.

Anonymous said...

whoever this person on here is who is saying all this stalking stuff, he is 10 times scarier than following a bus.

Anonymous said...

That guy on F$A is starting some kind of weird revolution on other Olivia fans. Weird.
I am starting to agree, can you guys cut it out? It really is starting to make Olivia look bad. As if there might be a gang fight at her concerts.
Some light saber duel except with Xanadu glowsticks

Anonymous said...

Anyone read the latest post by sicki on F&A?

There are reasons why I never said anything about knowing Olivia. One is that would not be the respectful thing to do. Another was Olivia's safety, I was coming & going while all of these scary people were after her. I thought I was helping to protect her. I was just a kid, I didn't realize that all of those men surounding O's home could handle things just fine.

Anonymous said...

I know what you mean .Almost all of the post's on f&a should have the twilight zone music playing in the background when you read them.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps we could convince the owner to implement the Twilight Zone music to automatically play when you access the site. And every now and then a scream shouts out.

Anonymous said...

I don't think king lunatic D'amato has the time.He's too busy trying to sue Olivia's lawyer over that letter that states Olivia does'nt support any fan club.He's too much of a dumb ass to realize that in America someone can change their mind if they want to and start supporting a fanclub if they want to.He bashes olivia and her managment constantly and then has the nerve to say "Why do they want nothing to to with us?"they have been in existance for over 5 years and they have less than 40 members.And half of those are him with multiple screen names.The whole site is a joke.

Anonymous said...

Vicki sicki is one of his screen names. He even tagged that profile as a victim of multiple personalities and claims that he/she is in therapy for witnessing a murder, and that he/she use to come and go as she pleased in Olivia's house, has tea with Olivia, and will tell on you if you are bad.

Anonymous said...

I think you all are being too hard on that girl that followed the bus, with that big ol' wolf pussy

Anonymous said...

I think most of you are a joke. Here you are bashing innocent people, yet you are too much of a coward to come forward with your true idenity.

Anonymous said...

innocent?????????????NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..............BUS FOLLOWER=STALKER

Anonymous said...

I cannot tell a lie, I'm the stalker of Kate, my name is OJ Simpson. I killed Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman in a jealous rage.
I fell in love with Kate a year ago when I saw her at an Olivia concert.
I had my old bronco painted black and asked by good friend Michael Jackson to help my friend Patrick escape.
I told Patrick we would hide out at Never, Never Land until the heat wore off then we would disguise ourselves and run and hide in Mexico.
Michael suggested a decoy that looks like Patrick to lure away the police investigators. He hired a bad Michael Jackson look-alike to look like Patrick and buy a ticket to Australia and hang out at Olivia's home.We told him to make the rounds at restaurants and clubs so people assume Patrick's in Australia.
Then after a few weeks of hiding we fled to Mexico. Everything was going great until Patrick had to buy that stupid pink hat because it reminded him of Olivia's bedroom.
He also picked up a blonde chick who looks like Olivia and disguises herself as Olivia. She secretly wears Koala Blue clothes and gets up on stage and sings songs just like Olivia to help Patrick and her hide out.
Well, I came back to the US after I knew Patrick and his secret Olivia were alright. I saw Kate and I fell in love with her. Now we can escape to Florida and I can sell my drugs on the golf course for extra money and still shoot foreign commercials at night to maintain our luxury lifestyle.
Anyone touches my Kate, I will get a jealous rage and kill the person just like I did when I saw Nicole with Ron. What can I say!

Anonymous said...

Remember: Our first issue of TOTALLY HOT OLIVIA E-NEWS hits the internet on June 1st. It will contain news and photos of Olivia. This will be ONLY available via e-mail and will be issued monthly. Anyone can get it but you must sign up to receive it. If you DON'T sign up, you WON'T get it.

Also VERY IMPORTANT we are also looking for "reporters" to help with the bulletin. To sign up to receive the e-letter or to become part of the Olivia-news team, contact Kate at Kate@alwaysolivia.com
_________________
Olivia, when I look into your eyes, I see all the wonders of the universe.

Back to top


Kate
Private Moderator


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 1377
Location: CT
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:04 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So far two people signed up. Come on guys don't be shy!! Sign up, submit me or Dan anything. We look forward to sharing this newsletter with you.
_________________
Starting a internet newsletter:OK
Only 2 people sign up:PRICELESS......................
The laughable internet newsletter.This would be really funny if it just was'nt so lame.lol..I wonder if they have a come meet your fellow stalkers page.

Anonymous said...

Billd



Joined:
Posts: 883
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had a psychic tell me once that Olivia and I were soul mates. Well, I guess that means we are only half soul mates because we can't seem to get together can we?

Who knows, maybe Olivia's problem is we haven't found each other yet. (I can dream can't I? )
_________________
Olivia, when I look into your eyes, I see all the wonders of the universe.
STALKER ALERT!STALKER ALERT! STALKER ALERT!EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.I gotta get this picture of this balding dumb bastard chasing Olivia holding this letter from the lawyer out of my head.Wahhhhhhhh, you said you were'nt supporting any fan club!Wahhhhhhhhhhhh I'm gonna sue you too!Wahhhhh.I'm even sueing your horse Judge.And unfortunatly he passed on but i'm still sueing anyway.Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Anonymous said...

yeah that "soul mate" thing is super creepy.
Any why does that fansite insist all these posts are from the OO site? Don't they know this site has thousands of readers and millions of hits a month?
That guy Bill is very much the fixated-psycho.

Anonymous said...

Kate,

We are going to keep doing what we do and they can just shove their bullshit back up their asses where it came from.



Again, can OO prove anything they are saying except that Kate followed Olivia's bus one time? (post from D'amato's website)........................................Finally admission from the King Lunatic D'amato on his website that one of his members has followed Olivia's tour bus.Too bad he does'nt say anything remotely condeming it.I guess that kind of behavior is encouraged over there.Of course the language the founder and president uses in his first sentence is beyond decency.It's there for the minors to read on his website but i'm sure the gutless weasel will delete it soon. Not the kind of language you want to see from a president of a fan club but reading his stalker poem's and rantings i can't say i'm surprised.

Anonymous said...

All his members are teen girls and he always talks vulgar to them like that. Sometimes it is shocking what he says to these young girls and how he is brainwashing them.
This guy never changes. Years from now when you check back on his website, he will be ranting about the same stuff and still be fixated on talking about OO. You notice how NOBODY on this thread has said they are from the OO club. Yet he rants and raves about this thread as if he reading the OO board. He says other things that have nothing to do with OO, yet somehow ties them in with it.
I wonder if this stuff on this thread was actually a joke just to get him going with his hilarious ranting?

Anonymous said...

Hi all, my name is Gator. I just love Hollywood gossip. It gets me aroused. Gossip always gets me sexually excited.

Anonymous said...

Gator? Gator Peterson!! This is Dawn Davenport. Dawn Davenport!...
you made love to me Christmas morning. Well I just wrote to tell you I'm pregnant and I want money.

Anonymous said...

Aim it the other way then, gator. You know how I detest organs. Gossip has absolutely nothing to do with that WORD, that THING you have hanging there like an obscene pickle. Spare me your anatomy.

Anonymous said...

I rarely eat any form of noodle. But I'll take a small portion to be polite, with cheese, please.

But If I have to eat with Gator, I'll spit food!

Anonymous said...

Dawn, If you get tired of being a Hare Krishna, you come live with me and be a lesbian!

Anonymous said...

Gator I mean it, I want money!All you ever gave me was this fetus in my belly and those ugyl shoes for christmas. I told you I wanted cha cha heels, black ones!
I'll never wear those ugly shoes you gave me instead! I told you the kind I wanted! You ruined my Christmas!

Anonymous said...

Dawn Davenport, are you crazy, look at what you've done to this thread!!! Nobody cares! Have another pretzel for Christ sakes! Are you sure you won't have another pretzel?

Anonymous said...

Get off me... LAY OFF ME! I hate you, to the bollocks with you! I hate you both, you awful people! You're not my friends! I hate you, I hate this thread, and I hate Christmas! And pretzels give me plaque! I'll have two chicken breasts please.

Anonymous said...

Hi this is Dawn's mother, Ida. I am sorry about Dawn's postings, it won't happen again. But I don't know what to do with her. I've DONE everything a mother can do: I've locked her in her room, I've beat her with the car antannae. Nothing changes her. It's HARD being a loving mother!

Anonymous said...

"This makes Olivia look like a dishonest, egotistical, arrogant, heartless, unfeeling diva, who doesn't even have any respect for her own fans to acknowledge them."

-written exclusively by Bill D'Amato
http://www.alwaysolivia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=734

Anonymous said...

Hey, the little sh!t who systematicaly misquoted Bill.

The one at 7:41 PM.

You have some gall doing your rotten little jokes about F&A- and on a public forum.

You could think that you can harm someone's reputation with your BS comments? No??? Do you have any decency?...

For the others who read this, the F&A founder never said Olivia was selfish, egotistical and all that.

The anonymous poster at 7:41 didn't give the complete content of that post. He cut out the part where the poster says that he doesn't think that Olivia is that way.

He said she could give that impression by not doing anything about the people she's associated with who behave in an awful manner.

Some of you should be prosecuted for all these relentless, defaming things you wrote about certain people.
I hope you will be, eventually.
It's not because you're on the internet and that there's free speech that you can play with people's minds and risk defaming people along the way.

What you do is disgusting, i hope you pay for it. Big time.

Anonymous said...

Um, are you that damn delusional? I QUOTED HIM ! Directly lifted from his website (hurry and look everyone before he edits it) He also posted that on a public forum, god are you that stupid??? But then again you could be one of the young girls from that website that he is dying to bone.LMAO
oh yeah, I forgot, he always says these horrible things about her, then covers it up with "I am not saying this is true but it certainly gives that impression"
WHich, is saying he thinks it is true.

He also said : QUOTE
"What better way for Tabloid Baby to show that Olivia is a dishonest person with a lot of things to hide?"

He is referring to this blog and how he is glad Tabloid Baby has posted it, to show the "true" Olivia. He has said this repeatedly.

Anonymous said...

Oh my God Almighty! Someone has sent me an email with a picture of a bowel movement!

Anonymous said...

I hope they don't find out my true identity on this thread. I'll have to change my appearance. I think I'll dye my hair another color and start dressing like a dyke.

Anonymous said...

Who is posting this hate on here?? The Egg Man didn't do it! I KNOW the Egg Man didn't do it!

Anonymous said...

Really the best way to let this thread die is to just quit posting to it and quit visiting it. The flames are just being fed. SO let it die already. The stupid rivalry on the clubs is so high school, although I don't see any threads or comments on OO bashing F&A. So to the members of F&A you are really asking for it by posting all that nasty stuff on your site. You reap what you sow. Maybe this is your karma?

Anonymous said...

oh my God he really did write that, the link leads right to it.

Anonymous said...

people. let's just be calm here.as for Lindsay Lohan being cast as Wonder Woman? If it's true that Joss Whedon is directing this, he better not hire this no-talent skank. i'll tell you what we'll do: we'll have jennifer love hewitt, jennifer connoly, lindsay lohan AND ms. carter show up to my apartment in costume. And after dinner and drinks and a lot of foreplay, i will be ready to rule on who... err.... look i'll be honest, i'm just planning to bang them. really. yup - all of 'em. even 'ol linda.

They'll probably wise up after the second round of "callbacks" but i'll take that chance.

Anonymous said...

You - the one(s) who keep replying with their little jokes and fake charges - really have some nerve leading people on like that.
This is a serious issue for some! Not some little game where you can throw your jokes around, without any respect!

Leave this place and let people to whom this subject really matters discuss it amongst themselves.
Some of us care about this and wouldn't get onto another forum just to make jokes about people who care about some other subject.

Try to think a bit more about what you're doing and what effect you may be having on people. It's not funny, like some of you seem to think.

It would be a start..

Anonymous said...

Well why did you hold me up for so long? Why did you keep asking me to come back? I had another blog I could have written in. How could I have gotten information about this Bill you talk of? I don't know him! You could have given me some lead as to how I could have gathered this data you wanted about him. You lead me to believe I had this job.
I guess there's just two kinds of people, Misses 9:38 poster: MY kind of people, and assholes. It's rather obvious which category you fit into. Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

Linsay Lohan is so freakin' nasty she makes me ill ....but strangely, I want to sleep with her just to make sure that's really how I feel.

Anonymous said...

You fucktard...........ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

Mr. or Misses 9:50..

1rst: I'm not Misses (i don't know where you got that - lol!).

Einstein at work again?

2nd: Well now it's pretty evident you're the asshole. You just didn't know it!

I've got better things to do than waste time with you here.

Bye, bye ass...i mean 9:50! ;-)

Anonymous said...

Kate,

We are going to keep doing what we do and they can just shove their bullshit back up their asses where it came from.



Again, can OO prove anything they are saying except that Kate followed Olivia's bus one time? (post from D'amato's website)........................................Finally admission from the King Lunatic D'amato on his website that one of his members has followed Olivia's tour bus.Too bad he does'nt say anything remotely condeming it.I guess that kind of behavior is encouraged over there.Of course the language the founder and president uses in his first sentence is beyond decency.It's there for the minors to read on his website but i'm sure the gutless weasel will delete it soon. Not the kind of language you want to see from a president of a fan club but reading his stalker poem's and rantings i can't say i'm surprised.

Anonymous said...

Look stop accusing Kate of something so little. She was not purposely speeding to follow it. She happened to be behind it, she didn't mean to make it sound like she was stalking her. There is nothing wrong with following a bus for 5 minutes, but it's not like she followed it to her hotel. Now THAT is stalking.

Anonymous said...

STALKER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!Look stop accusing Kate of something so little. She was not purposely speeding to follow it. She happened to be behind it, she didn't mean to make it sound like she was stalking her. There is nothing wrong with following a bus for 5 minutes, but it's not like she followed it to her hotel. Now THAT is stalking.
(post from above)
You Forever and always members have a different excuse every day!First she did'nt do it at all,then it was'nt even Olivia's bus, now we have this dumb bastard thinking there is a mileage requirement to be considered a stalker .Calling all Forever and Always Dumb Bastards, here's some advice..JUST ADMIT IT WAS WRONG AND MOVE ON!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Kate
Private Moderator


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 1378
Location: CT
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(from the stalker site forever and always)
Those people are nothing but a joke ............................................ And your nothing but a stalker.

Anonymous said...

I don't find it all too shocking that a teenager would follow a rock star's bus. I think you are overblowing it and this is getting tedious.

Anonymous said...

Pity you don't find it shocking.After what happenned to Princess Diana,i find it criminal.Just curious , what do you think Olivia would think about it?Think she would be happy about it?Continue to make excuses you F&A members.Your only lieing to yourselves.

Anonymous said...

Jesus, why does everybody that post here have to be from one of those freaking clubs?Attention, there ARE other people in the world

Reid Taylor said...

Contrary to the allegations made by this article, Olivia is NOT dating Michael Klein. They have been friends for over 20 years, and Olivia has refuted all rumors that they are romantically involved. Although she’s still holding out hope that Patrick is alive and will someday return, she knows that the best logical thing she can do right now is carry on with her life.

Anonymous said...

"Pity you don't find it shocking.After what happenned to Princess Diana,i find it criminal.Just curious , what do you think Olivia would think about it?Think she would be happy about it?Continue to make excuses you F&A members.Your only lieing to yourselves."

7:35 AM


You can't be serious? You reason like a kid.
There's NO COMPARISON!!!

Diana was CHASED by greedy-for-sensationalism reporters, etc.
THAT resulted in an accident.
The other ones were just quietly following from a distance.

IT TAKES MINIMAL DRIVING SKILLS TO DO THAT SAFELY!!

Get that through your head!


Are you all a bunch of dummies or what?

Anonymous said...

While Olivia is carrying on with her life does that mean she has to look in the rear view mirror of her tour bus and see Kate there?I sure hope not.

Anonymous said...

You can't be serious? You reason like a kid.
There's NO COMPARISON!!!

Diana was CHASED by greedy-for-sensationalism reporters, etc.
THAT resulted in an accident.
The other ones were just quietly following from a distance.(Post from above)
greedy-for sensationalism reporters=crazed stalkers that will not give a celebity their privacy they deserve..seems about the same to me.Does it really matter what the reasons are when the tragic accident happens???You poor dumb bastard neither one should be doing this.You know it also as you have completly ignored the question of Do you think Olivia would be happy with you doing this?Stop living in denial you ass and just admit it's wrong.keep trying to justify it.It makes you look ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

It makes me look ridiculous, hey?

Lol

The ridiculous one is the one (the ones?) posting all that malicious crap about F&A and Kate.

That's truly immature and deplorable.

Anonymous said...

OK so she admitted she followed the bus, now can we move on? Anyways children as I was saying, the Hare krishnas are totally gay...

Anonymous said...

The ridiculous one is the one (the ones?) posting all that malicious crap about F&A and Kate.

That's truly immature and deplorable.
........Yeah that's much worse than doing something illegal like stalking a celebrity.Tell me what color is the sky in your fantasy world?

Anonymous said...

Well, if you're not completely dumb, you'll know that it's possible to do something wich technicaly is illegal but isn't harmful.

Like when you cross a red light, safely, on foot. Does that make you a terrible, despicable delinquent? No.

Here, following (the wrong bus, let's remember that) for 10 measly miles, with no intention of hurting anyone, not doing any speeding, not driving dangerously, just because you're a giggling fan enamored with your idol, thus with no sinister intent - do you understand all this? - is the same.
Technicaly it's "illegal". But does that give you the right to call that person bad, dangerous, deranged, etc?

NO! But that is what is being done on this thread and elsewhere.
She's much, much better than all these hypocritical sh!ts who try to defame her or F&A.

What she did on the highway was benign.

If you can't understand all that, i don't know how to put it more clearly.

In this case you would be the dumbass or whatever, not me.

Have a nice day!

Anonymous said...

neither one of you are going to give in, so why keep repeating the same thing over and over? It is boring. And I must say nobody is making F&A look bad, they are doing that to themselves.

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